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2019-07-05 13:54:04 --> zws (~blindidio@134.209.53.112) has joined #emacs
2019-07-05 13:54:04 -- Topic for #emacs is "Path to good init.el: to err, and err, and err again (but less, and less, and less) | Emacs questions take priority over off-topic chatter, so ask! | No public logging! What happens in #emacs stays in #emacs | No racism, sexism, xenophobia, botwanking, or other asshattery, please"
2019-07-05 13:54:04 -- Topic set by JordiGH on Fri, 21 Jun 2019 09:26:41
2019-07-05 13:54:04 -- Channel #emacs: 675 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 674 normals)
2019-07-05 13:54:04 -- Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:42:33
2019-07-05 13:54:15 parsnip johnjay: this is annoying to type manually: http://ix.io/1NNu/elisp
2019-07-05 13:54:16 caoliver TreyHarris, sounds like a crappy implementation. Embedded Lua apps are only as good as the attached (wretched) C.
2019-07-05 13:54:39 parsnip johnjay: and note the multiple expansions of $1
2019-07-05 13:54:42 --> f0xtr0t (~f0xtr0t@unaffiliated/jayb) has joined #emacs
2019-07-05 13:55:38 f0xtr0t Hi! How do I run (process-lines "foobar") and get it to run foobar on the server that I'm connected to via tramp? process-lines seems to only do things on the local machine.
2019-07-05 13:57:53 johnjay parsnip: i guess that makes sense
2019-07-05 13:58:11 johnjay maybe i'm confused because i th ink it should be part of a larger framework or something
2019-07-05 13:58:15 npostavs f0xtr0t: you'll need to use process-file instead (it's the file-handler enabled version of call-process)
2019-07-05 13:58:19 johnjay like a code-generation library for java
2019-07-05 13:58:44 parsnip not all languages have a magic ecosystem
2019-07-05 13:59:04 parsnip and this is a lightweight solution
2019-07-05 13:59:16 parsnip sometimes magic ecosystems crash cheap computers
2019-07-05 13:59:18 johnjay well ok but what if you needed to change $1 by adding a letter to it at some point?
2019-07-05 13:59:22 johnjay would you just use regexp?
2019-07-05 13:59:44 parsnip the usual emacs way
2019-07-05 13:59:48 parsnip whatever works for you
2019-07-05 13:59:55 parsnip you mean code refactoring, i guess
2019-07-05 14:00:04 parsnip that's a different question
2019-07-05 14:00:22 parsnip but i guess you file it under, "i'm used magic ecosystems"
2019-07-05 14:00:22 johnjay sure
2019-07-05 14:00:25 parsnip *used to
2019-07-05 14:00:53 parsnip some languages work better in an IDE
2019-07-05 14:01:01 johnjay also does yas have more features than that?
2019-07-05 14:01:14 parsnip more features than what?
2019-07-05 14:01:17 parsnip like what?
2019-07-05 14:01:25 johnjay i mean it's basically regex substituting into a string right?
2019-07-05 14:01:29 johnjay why not do that by hand?
2019-07-05 14:01:52 f0xtr0t npostavs: Thanks! That helps a lot! :)
2019-07-05 14:02:10 f0xtr0t Finally I've got this script working as I wanted :)
2019-07-05 14:02:23 parsnip johnjay: so by hand, you want to insert that block and do a regex substitute?
2019-07-05 14:02:44 parsnip johnjay: i think you mean, "pfft, that package is small and is not complicated, what a bunch of amateurs"
2019-07-05 14:03:02 parsnip you don't have to use it
2019-07-05 14:03:21 johnjay i'm trying to figure out why i would want to use it
2019-07-05 14:03:31 johnjay i guess i can try using it and see
2019-07-05 14:04:03 parsnip i didn't use it until those particularly large annoying blocks i showed you
2019-07-05 14:04:21 parsnip i've been writing them manually for a while, because why bother setting up yasnippet
2019-07-05 14:04:38 parsnip and maintaining snippets, etc
2019-07-05 14:04:56 parsnip (i don't want to maintain the snippets, i'll be submitting a PR soon)
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2019-07-05 14:05:40 johnjay maybe i'm weird but i stop and restart my emacs all the time
2019-07-05 14:05:53 johnjay so i dont' care about polluting the namespace with whatever variables i need at the moment
2019-07-05 14:06:14 johnjay so i can see memory management being something good there
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2019-07-05 15:07:01 TreyHarris johnjay: here's an example of some fanciness of yasnippets in action. You may need to manually change the resolution to 1080p to read the text; it seems to want to default to 480p, where you certainly can't. https://youtu.be/WMOVgEeAtfE
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2019-07-05 15:07:49 TreyHarris I've been using it a long time, so those two particular snippets are a bit of a mess of old and new features and not designed for readability; they could be improved without any loss of functionality
2019-07-05 15:08:33 TreyHarris When I'm not obviously typing, the only keys I use are TAB and C-d.
2019-07-05 15:10:08 --> Xal (~Xal@S010664777dabacc3.vw.shawcable.net) has joined #emacs
2019-07-05 15:10:14 TreyHarris Any time a region is highlighted, I can descend into it to edit (sometimes freeform, often sub-snippets) with TAB or get rid of it entirely and move on with C-d
2019-07-05 15:12:41 TreyHarris johnjay: hopefully that clarifies why it's easier than hand-typing or inserting abbrevs
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2019-07-05 15:19:46 @offby1 is there a way to automatically generate a "ChangeLog" message, sort of like C-x 4 a, but without adding the user and date? If so, I could use that for git
2019-07-05 15:19:59 @offby1 I mean I can do C-x 4 a and just kill the stuff I want, but ... eww
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2019-07-05 15:24:53 TreyHarris offby1: Not sure what functionality you're looking for, then... that sounds like just adding an empty line? I've always found it easier to generate my ChangeLog from my git history rather than the other way around
2019-07-05 15:25:18 TreyHarris (and Magit has facilities for doing that from commits in log buffers)
2019-07-05 15:25:32 npostavs offby1: I think log-edit-insert-changelog (C-c C-a) will copy in the stuff you want from the ChangeLog file automatically
2019-07-05 15:26:07 @offby1 TreyHarris: C-x 4 a (at least sometimes) figures out the names of the file function that you've hacked on, and prepares a little template including that info
2019-07-05 15:26:10 @offby1 yes, I'm that lazy
2019-07-05 15:26:25 npostavs As it happens, I'm working on a version that will generate it directly: https://debbugs.gnu.org/16301#11
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2019-07-08 09:35:10 --> zws (~blindidio@134.209.53.112) has joined #emacs
2019-07-08 09:35:10 -- Topic for #emacs is "Path to good init.el: to err, and err, and err again (but less, and less, and less) | Emacs questions take priority over off-topic chatter, so ask! | No public logging! What happens in #emacs stays in #emacs | No racism, sexism, xenophobia, botwanking, or other asshattery, please"
2019-07-08 09:35:10 -- Topic set by JordiGH on Fri, 21 Jun 2019 09:26:41
2019-07-08 09:35:10 -- Channel #emacs: 680 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 679 normals)
2019-07-08 09:35:11 -- Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:42:33
2019-07-08 09:35:13 --> Necktwi (~necktwi@202.153.45.33) has joined #emacs
2019-07-08 09:36:14 grummund mns: thanks, that works.
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2019-07-08 09:37:00 johnjay the elisp programming manual has long digressions on the nature of atoms
2019-07-08 09:37:02 johnjay interesting
2019-07-08 09:37:19 bremner fsvo interesting
2019-07-08 09:38:17 cvandusen rudybot: atoms or car chases, which is interesting?
2019-07-08 09:38:24 rudybot cvandusen: well, if I recall correctly there weren't any car chases
2019-07-08 09:39:00 johnjay fsbot: can emacs split the atom?
2019-07-08 09:39:01 fsbot Try: can-emacs CanaldoEmacs CanalEmacs CanalEmacsEs CanalEmacsEsNovedades CanalEmacsEsRecord CancelingInEmacs MantedoresdoCanalEmacs PessoasdoCanaldoEmacs
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2019-07-08 09:40:10 grummund it's curious that with (setq global-auto-revert-mode t), then M-x global-auto-revert-mode will report "Global-Auto-Revert mode disabled".
2019-07-08 09:41:41 grummund like it's enabled but not really.
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2019-07-08 09:47:07 cvandusen If you set it, and then execute it, in effect, isn't that just toggling it?
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2019-07-08 09:49:02 grummund well that implies it *was* enabled, except the buffer doesn't behave that way.
2019-07-08 09:49:26 cvandusen ah, interesting.
2019-07-08 09:49:31 fledermaus grummund: did you read the documentation?
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2019-07-08 09:49:49 fledermaus “Setting this variable directly does not take effect;
2019-07-08 09:49:53 fledermaus either customize it (see the info node ‘Easy Customization’)
2019-07-08 09:49:56 fledermaus or call the function ‘global-auto-revert-mode’.”
2019-07-08 09:50:23 fledermaus you're going behind global-auto-revert-mode's back and setting its state variable (which naturally does nothing other than confuse the issue)
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2019-07-08 09:50:48 grummund fledermaus: ah, i see....
2019-07-08 09:50:53 * grummund was reading the doc for global-auto-revert-mode *function*
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2019-07-08 09:51:39 grummund now the biting makes sense
2019-07-08 09:51:51 johnjay fledermaus: i've noticed in other modes setting that to 't' automatically changes the buffer mode
2019-07-08 09:51:53 johnjay kinda weird
2019-07-08 09:52:05 johnjay like if you do (setq abbrev-mode t)
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2019-07-08 09:54:35 fledermaus abbrev-mode is globally loaded by default. So it is able to "notice" when the variable is set.
2019-07-08 09:54:55 fledermaus as in it's never really off
2019-07-08 09:55:04 johnjay so that wouldn't apply to a mode that's not auto loaded?
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2019-07-08 09:58:27 ggnoredo Is it ok that if any typescript project with tide and typescript mode is running on 40% cpu all the time?
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2019-07-08 09:59:55 fledermaus johnjay: no, because they would not be resident and there would be no infrastructure for them to hook into.
2019-07-08 10:00:03 johnjay at the command line shouldn't 'emacs --batch "(this 2 2")' print an error?
2019-07-08 10:00:12 johnjay ah ok
2019-07-08 10:00:39 johnjay er sorry 2)"
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2019-07-08 10:01:39 fledermaus why would it?
2019-07-08 10:02:46 fledermaus your running emacs in batch mode and passinga command like arg of "(this 2 2)", which is an idisyncratically (but legally) named file which (presumably) does not exist.
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2019-07-08 10:03:09 fledermaus calling emacs with a nonexistent file name is allowed, that's how you can create new files.
2019-07-08 10:03:14 johnjay it says error goes to stderr
2019-07-08 10:03:21 johnjay maybe i didn't redir it right
2019-07-08 10:03:36 fledermaus it's in batch mode, so it then executes any commands it has been told to (which is no commands since you didn't passany)
2019-07-08 10:03:40 fledermaus so then it exits.
2019-07-08 10:03:56 johnjay oh lol
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2019-07-08 10:04:11 fledermaus you're*
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2019-07-08 10:04:20 johnjay right using -f it prints an error message
2019-07-08 10:04:33 johnjay i guess on linux (this 2 2) is probably a legal file name
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2019-07-08 10:04:45 fledermaus it is.
2019-07-08 10:05:00 fledermaus although I reserve the right to hit users that actually create names like that.
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2019-07-08 10:06:09 johnjay there should be a bastard user from hell series
2019-07-08 10:06:20 johnjay someone that names files things like 1234 or 'rm -rf /'
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2019-07-08 10:28:49 YoungFrog / is not valid in a filename (well, except as dir separator)
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2019-07-08 10:32:41 fledermaus I have encountered macos-authored CDs that had files with / in the name.
2019-07-08 10:32:51 fledermaus they were "fun" to get the data off of.
2019-07-08 10:33:21 fledermaus (yes, rock ridge et al expressly forbid this)
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2019-07-08 10:36:10 JordiGH Is this macOS IX-made?
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2019-07-08 10:38:55 mns JordiGH: yes, that owuld have ot be the case, it would be the old MacOS 9 or earlier, where the file system used ":" as the path separator. Same as on VMS.
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2019-07-08 10:44:23 pjb Hi. I'm trying to tell flycheck where to find the include files, but after setting flycheck-clang-include-path and flycheck-gcc-include-path to a list of include directories, I still get (indirectly) 'newlib.h' file not found with <angled> include; use "quotes" instead
2019-07-08 10:44:31 pjb This newlib.h file is found in one of the listed directories.
2019-07-08 10:44:43 pjb How can I make flycheck understand it?
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2019-07-08 10:50:44 pjb The c/c++-clang command seems to be correct, with -iquote and -I, -I specifying both quoted and angled includes…
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2019-07-08 11:18:44 -- Topic for #emacs is "Path to good init.el: to err, and err, and err again (but less, and less, and less) | Emacs questions take priority over off-topic chatter, so ask! | No public logging! What happens in #emacs stays in #emacs | No racism, sexism, xenophobia, botwanking, or other asshattery, please"
2019-07-08 11:18:44 -- Topic set by JordiGH (jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) on Fri, 21 Jun 2019 09:26:41
2019-07-08 11:18:44 -- Channel #emacs: 694 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 693 normals)
2019-07-08 11:18:44 -- URL for #emacs: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsChannel
2019-07-08 11:18:45 -- Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:42:33
2019-07-08 11:18:45 -- Mode #emacs [+Cnprsj 2:3]
2019-07-08 11:18:45 -- Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:42:33
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2019-07-08 11:35:56 e1f let's unionize #emacs
2019-07-08 11:37:38 gnomon o god does this mean more meetings
2019-07-08 11:38:08 fledermaus e1f: I hear it's more woke to intersectionise it.
2019-07-08 11:38:10 e1f yes, and union dues
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2019-07-08 11:41:43 tune cut out the bosses and make it a co-op
2019-07-08 11:42:16 ldlework impeccable insight comrade tune
2019-07-08 11:43:44 cvandusen rudybot: up against the wall bourgeois!
2019-07-08 11:43:52 rudybot cvandusen: Even today, there's a split between good, honest folk who use "use" and the bourgeois oppressors who use "utilize", who will be first against the wall
2019-07-08 11:44:14 fledermaus ✊
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2019-07-08 11:46:45 bremner itym first to hug Tom Snout
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2019-07-08 12:02:59 hodapp let's ionize #emacs so it can be unionized
2019-07-08 12:03:03 unknownmosquito lol that quote is silly -- everyone knows that people who possess skills worth economic value (like everyone in this channel) are "kulaks," tools of the bourgeois to be put up against the wall along with them..
2019-07-08 12:06:20 hodapp wut
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2019-07-08 12:07:47 cvandusen ,everyone
2019-07-08 12:07:47 fsbot no one but the speaker
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2019-07-08 12:08:46 * edgar-rft has no skills
2019-07-08 12:09:14 cvandusen I once had a skill saw. it ran away
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2019-07-08 12:12:47 tromey I put my skill saw up against the wall
2019-07-08 12:15:22 Sketch mns: macosx still uses hfs+, i'm pretty sure it still uses : as a path separator behind the scenes
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2019-07-08 12:32:14 kenrestivo huskqvarna's are better saws
2019-07-08 12:32:29 kenrestivo *husqvarna
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2019-07-08 12:34:45 hodapp I have a Husqvarna lawnmower...
2019-07-08 12:34:48 hodapp also a push reel that I use more
2019-07-08 12:34:54 didi Does you Buster's Emacs move mail using gnus? Mine apparently is broken.
2019-07-08 12:34:59 bremner unknownmosquito: I'm an academic. So I'll be against the wall for other reasons than economic value
2019-07-08 12:35:07 unknownmosquito hahaha
2019-07-08 12:35:15 bremner didi: doesn't it recommend using mailutils or something like that?
2019-07-08 12:35:18 unknownmosquito for having opinions... xD
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2019-07-08 12:35:41 didi bremner: I dunno. I'm used to just install it and it works.
2019-07-08 12:35:49 didi bremner: But good point.
2019-07-08 12:36:06 didi Also, `apt install emacs25' installs Emacs 26.
2019-07-08 12:36:21 bremner yes. that's a feature
2019-07-08 12:36:29 didi bremner: Debian...
2019-07-08 12:36:45 * didi hates change
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2019-07-08 12:38:39 unknownmosquito wow (@ didi)
2019-07-08 12:38:42 unknownmosquito that's a feature??
2019-07-08 12:38:42 fsbot Inconceivable!
2019-07-08 12:38:49 unknownmosquito oof.mp3
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2019-07-08 12:38:58 bremner didi: what I remember is that upstream decided to recommend using the movemail from mailutils, so Debian followed
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2019-07-08 12:39:09 bremner it _should_ still work without mailutils installed though
2019-07-08 12:39:23 didi unknownmosquito: Me hating change? I think it's more like a bug, but whathever.
2019-07-08 12:39:45 didi bremner: Something is off.
2019-07-08 12:40:07 bremner the emacs2x packages are gone, replaced with compatibility shims
2019-07-08 12:40:18 didi no u
2019-07-08 12:40:31 dharog hi didi
2019-07-08 12:40:37 didi dharog: o/
2019-07-08 12:40:44 dharog How are you?
2019-07-08 12:40:47 dharog I am dexter
2019-07-08 12:41:00 didi dharog: Nice lab.
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2019-07-08 12:42:09 didi I've never saw this message: Mail source (file) failed: (error Cannot get new mail)
2019-07-08 12:42:38 unknownmosquito oh I was WTF-ing at emacs25 installing emacs 26 lol
2019-07-08 12:43:03 didi rudybot: Where is mah mail?
2019-07-08 12:43:04 rudybot didi: Ah, here is a hint: http://mah.everybody.org/docs/mail/
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2019-07-08 12:43:34 didi I don't like when you try to be usefull.
2019-07-08 12:43:35 kenrestivo apt-get install foo.... it installs bar! it's a feature
2019-07-08 12:43:37 bremner didi: can you run movemail manually? I don't use it, but it seems like natural debugging step
2019-07-08 12:43:55 didi bremner: I'm afraid of losing important spam.
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2019-07-08 12:45:04 didi bremner: Maybe something changed in gnus from 25 to 26.
2019-07-08 12:45:12 bremner almost certainly
2019-07-08 12:45:23 didi fsbot: slap bremner
2019-07-08 12:45:24 * fsbot slaps bremner with a large halibut
2019-07-08 12:46:03 Misha_B ubuntu sucks, but I'm too lazy to use anything else
2019-07-08 12:46:21 cyrus-and hello, is there something similar to Xresources on macOS that emacs parses at startup to obtain font, toolbar visibility, etc.? i was hoping "defaults" but I cannot find anything documented
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2019-07-08 12:46:54 didi cyrus-and: Debian hates .Xresources now.
2019-07-08 12:47:22 bremner we do?
2019-07-08 12:47:25 cyrus-and didi: lol how's that?
2019-07-08 12:47:25 bremner I still use them
2019-07-08 12:47:35 didi bremner: They will come to you.
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2019-07-08 12:47:51 bremner prolly. Force me to use wayland and a mouse
2019-07-08 12:47:59 didi I had some fun hours debugging until I learned I'm using Wayland and Wayland hates it too.
2019-07-08 12:48:09 bremner well. yes, wayland.
2019-07-08 12:48:31 * didi hates chage
2019-07-08 12:48:36 didi Also change.
2019-07-08 12:48:38 Misha_B what is the argument for using wayland again?
2019-07-08 12:49:00 didi Debian installs it. I obey.
2019-07-08 12:49:20 bremner I think thats Gnome installing wayland
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2019-07-08 12:50:10 fledermaus gnome switched over to wayland as the default, so if you're using gnome you get what the default is for that, basically.
2019-07-08 12:51:29 fledermaus there wasn't realy a good decision to be made: the feeling was that maybe X11 should be the default for this release, _but_ gnome switched over a while back, so whichever decision was made users were going to be exposed to a less tested path, depending on what they were using/doing
2019-07-08 12:51:35 fledermaus ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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2019-07-08 12:52:00 cyrus-and so where can I find a list of "defaults write org.gnu.Emacs ..." used by emacs??
2019-07-08 12:52:00 fsbot It is decidedly so!
2019-07-08 12:52:30 unknownmosquito strangely the Ubuntu 19.04 Gnome uses X11
2019-07-08 12:52:39 fledermaus as to the argumets, there are definitely some infelicities in the X protocol to do with things like synchronising rendering events (basically guaranteeing that certain things happen at once, or at least not before certain other events)
2019-07-08 12:52:45 didi I also lost Amarok. Debian should release less!
2019-07-08 12:53:05 unknownmosquito Amarok died for me the day 2.0 was released
2019-07-08 12:53:21 fledermaus tl;dr it's complicated, and it's probably more complicated than you think. computering is hard.
2019-07-08 12:53:47 didi unknownmosquito: Nah, it was nice. Now I'm again on the market for a music player, like a hipster.
2019-07-08 12:54:11 fledermaus (and I say this as someone who doesn't intend to switch just yet, but I'm not throwing my toys aout of the pram about the decision either)
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2019-07-08 12:54:52 unknownmosquito just don't do what I did, which is to store your music on a software RAID array you had a friend help you set up, but then said friend died in a freak accident a few days later and you never remembered how you had set up the array together so when a drive went bad you just put the drives in a closet and bought a Spotify subscription like a total pleb
2019-07-08 12:55:07 fledermaus unknownmosquito: Ididn't say they _couldn't_ - the decision was that they would go with the default for gnome when gnome was in use, and it is the default desktop env, so. Ubuntu's decisions belong to ubuntu, not to debian.
2019-07-08 12:55:44 unknownmosquito oh yeah fledermaus I just thought it was interesting that Ubuntu had shipped Gnome in a non-default setting. AFAIK the other Gnome-default distributions are shipping Wayland now.
2019-07-08 12:55:48 JordiGH Woo, I got swag: https://jordi.platinum.edu.pl/piccies/jordi-btoads.jpg
2019-07-08 12:56:26 didi JordiGH: I was going to yell at you because of octave, but now I forgot. Rude.
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2019-07-08 12:56:52 JordiGH wat wat
2019-07-08 12:56:54 JordiGH wat i do
2019-07-08 12:57:18 didi You were my vessel to release my frustration with old matlab code.
2019-07-08 12:58:00 didi Now I'm yelling at bremner for breaking my mail.
2019-07-08 12:58:02 * fledermaus attaches the plunger of blame to JordiGH
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2019-07-08 12:59:15 bremner didi: you should switch to notmuch. Then you can really yell at me for breaking your mail, and I'll maybe even care
2019-07-08 12:59:27 didi Haha.
2019-07-08 12:59:33 didi ,bremner++
2019-07-08 12:59:34 fsbot Noted, didi. One vi-point for bremner!
2019-07-08 12:59:53 JordiGH bremner: I just used you as an example, btw: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20382566
2019-07-08 13:00:54 bremner JordiGH: that's more or less accurate. The university would sign off on individual contributions, but who the hell has time for that
2019-07-08 13:02:59 JordiGH esr was such as "copyright assignments don't work because nobody is checking that the employer assigned copyright" and I'm like git please, we know this isn't true.
2019-07-08 13:03:44 bremner yeah, my situation might be weird because my "IP rights" change every 5 years or so
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2019-07-08 13:04:00 bremner or they could change, although they never have
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2019-07-08 13:07:32 technomancy "software licensing won't work because people could just lie about having written things"
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2019-07-08 13:12:06 didi We need hard proof, like letters written with blood and swearing over sacrated books.
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2019-07-08 13:12:28 didi sacred*
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2019-07-08 13:15:06 kenrestivo it's so amusing when people who are clearly a bit farther along the autism spectrum than me have to deal with ambiguity and uncertainty
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2019-07-08 13:26:36 styledash lol
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2019-07-08 13:40:26 e1f unknownmosquito: how did the friend die?
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2019-07-08 13:40:42 unknownmosquito he was found drowned in a lake near his house
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2019-07-08 13:40:53 bremner JordiGH: arguing with esr sounds like mud-wrestling with a pig
2019-07-08 13:40:55 unknownmosquito I never got more of an explanation than that
2019-07-08 13:40:57 e1f wow
2019-07-08 13:41:05 unknownmosquito yeah it was really insane
2019-07-08 13:41:27 unknownmosquito young guy, too, in his early thirties
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2019-07-08 13:49:00 fledermaus https://mastodon.social/@ersatzmaus/102407299600761015
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2019-07-08 14:40:01 fivo What is a fast way to resizing a window to let's say 20 lines?
2019-07-08 14:41:20 e1f c-u 20 c-x ^
2019-07-08 14:41:22 e1f i think
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2019-07-08 14:42:37 e1f in a gui you can drag the modeline
2019-07-08 14:42:47 e1f the window dimensions should be displayed
2019-07-08 14:43:36 unknownmosquito fivo: use hyperbole to control windows and frames
2019-07-08 14:44:04 unknownmosquito you could install hyperbole and use nothing other than the window/frame control shortcuts and it'd be worth it
2019-07-08 14:44:46 unknownmosquito it's overkill for the question at hand, certainly, but assuming this is an XY problem situation, I cannot more strongly recommend hyperbole
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2019-07-08 14:47:10 cvandusen Given its name, overkill seems to be its rai·son d'ê·tre.
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2019-07-08 14:47:52 unknownmosquito fair
2019-07-08 14:48:10 unknownmosquito emacs isn't emacs without org-mode and hyperbole imho
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2019-07-08 14:48:54 unknownmosquito tbh the killer feature with hyperbole is the ability to shift-click on a buffer and drag it to another window and have it swap positions with whatever window is there
2019-07-08 14:49:02 unknownmosquito at least for me, that's the killer feature I can no longer live without
2019-07-08 14:49:32 unknownmosquito or drag it out of the frame and it makes a new frame..
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2019-07-08 14:50:44 hodapp I have yet to bother trying to learn hyperbole
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2019-07-08 14:50:58 hodapp partly because I don't understand wtf it's for
2019-07-08 14:51:20 e1f i have yet to swap two windows in emacs
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2019-07-08 14:52:10 e1f kids these days need to shuffle their windows before performing their magic tricks
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2019-07-08 15:18:34 fivo ok thanks
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2019-07-08 15:25:41 miskatonic I hate the mouse unconditionally, so using it for switching windows is no option for me
2019-07-08 15:26:42 bremner smash the looms
2019-07-08 15:26:47 JordiGH ,ratpoison
2019-07-08 15:26:47 fsbot hmm, ratpoison is [0] a minimalistic, GNU Screen-oriented window manager at http://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/
2019-07-08 15:26:47 fsbot [1] packaged together with a ratpoison.el for .ratpoisonrc font-locking and ratpoison remote commanding
2019-07-08 15:26:47 fsbot [2] at http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ratpoison
2019-07-08 15:26:47 fsbot [3] at http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/RatPoison
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2019-07-08 15:39:32 turbofail ,stumpwm
2019-07-08 15:39:33 fsbot stumpwm is [0] a ratpoison-like WM written in Common Lisp
2019-07-08 15:39:33 fsbot [1] at https://github.com/sabetts/stumpwm
2019-07-08 15:39:33 fsbot [2] the emacs of window managers
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2019-07-08 15:40:53 turbofail stumpwm is supposed to be the "successor" to ratpoison, though both appear to be worked on to some extent
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2019-07-08 15:42:25 metametapod Hi, is it possible to use auto-load-alist for a mode dependent on another mode?
2019-07-08 15:43:28 metametapod e.g., something like `(add-to-list 'auto-mode-alist '("my-extension" mode-a mode-b)))`
2019-07-08 15:44:02 npostavs metametapod: you can only have one major mode at a time
2019-07-08 15:44:13 npostavs what does "dependent" mean exactly?
2019-07-08 15:44:21 MoziM is there a term to describe a program that modifies it's own source code then recompiles/interprets itself at runtime?
2019-07-08 15:44:37 JordiGH MoziM: Viruses that did used to be called polymorphic.
2019-07-08 15:44:46 metametapod this is for a globalized minor mode
2019-07-08 15:45:00 MoziM JordiGH: but how many viruses ship with their source code? -_-
2019-07-08 15:45:10 MoziM JordiGH: afaik that's still a real term for malware
2019-07-08 15:45:17 metametapod that needs to run after another mode
2019-07-08 15:45:18 MoziM but that's modifying the binary itself
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2019-07-08 15:45:33 JordiGH metametapod: Seems like you should just add a hook to the major mode to enable the minor mode.
2019-07-08 15:45:33 wasamasa self-modifying code it is these days
2019-07-08 15:45:41 wasamasa it happens in malware and JIT
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2019-07-08 15:46:49 MoziM nvm it's called reflection
2019-07-08 15:46:59 wasamasa nope
2019-07-08 15:47:02 MoziM no?
2019-07-08 15:47:04 turbofail hmmmm that term usually means something else
2019-07-08 15:47:05 * MoziM pondering
2019-07-08 15:47:19 MoziM 'reflection is the ability of a process to examine, introspect, and modify its own structure and behavior.[1]'
2019-07-08 15:47:20 metametapod JordiGH: i am, but there's logic detecting the file name that i'd prefer to have handled by `auto-mode-alist`
2019-07-08 15:47:25 MoziM according to wikipedia
2019-07-08 15:47:34 wasamasa reflection is how statically typed languages gain the behavior of dynamically typed languages
2019-07-08 15:47:48 JordiGH auto-mode-alist isn't very smart. Just an alist of regexes to modes.
2019-07-08 15:48:01 wasamasa most of the time it's just a runtime dispatch
2019-07-08 15:48:05 JordiGH If you need greater wisdom, you'll have to inject it elsewhere.
2019-07-08 15:48:06 turbofail MoziM: that usually implies having run-time data about the source code, not modifying source and recompiling
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2019-07-08 15:48:35 JordiGH metametapod: So to answer your original question, "no".
2019-07-08 15:49:21 turbofail anyway the distinction between modifying "source" and modifying the "binary" is kind of arbitrary, self-modifying code probably covers both cases regardless
2019-07-08 15:49:46 JordiGH wasamasa: D's reflection is very compile-time too.
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2019-07-08 15:49:57 metametapod https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/mgDNePQE/
2019-07-08 15:50:05 Sketch i would think self modifying code would modify the running binary
2019-07-08 15:50:08 metametapod JordiGH: so this is about as good as it gets?
2019-07-08 15:50:11 JordiGH You can write compile-time code to list all members of a module, see if they match a regex, and for those that do, write an arbitrary function.
2019-07-08 15:50:16 Sketch not the source and then recompile itself
2019-07-08 15:50:20 MoziM turbofail: hmm...
2019-07-08 15:50:29 wasamasa Sketch: you're forgetting about how a binary is loaded into writable memory
2019-07-08 15:50:31 Sketch (of course, if it's in a language there is no distinction between source in binary...)
2019-07-08 15:50:44 pakcjo anyone using evil-mode? I'm trying to learn it, but can't find a good documentation of the keybindings per mode :(
2019-07-08 15:51:03 turbofail JordiGH: i think you would usually call that metaprogramming if it's happening at compile time
2019-07-08 15:51:18 wasamasa Sketch: that memory is writable and if your debugger is smart enough, it will yell at you when the representation of the binary it loaded up initially is different from the one in memory
2019-07-08 15:51:19 JordiGH metametapod: I don't understand what's going on. Why mess with alist at all? Why not make your hook check the buffer's name and if it matches, activate the minor mode?
2019-07-08 15:51:29 wasamasa Sketch: because that is, sorry about the pun, sketchy behavior
2019-07-08 15:51:40 wasamasa pakcjo: the vim manual, lol
2019-07-08 15:51:42 JordiGH lol
2019-07-08 15:52:06 JordiGH pakcjo: Yes people use evil mode.
2019-07-08 15:52:39 metametapod b/c it's relying on a function from the other package
2019-07-08 15:52:39 MoziM gahh... life was so simple when you can have the elisp interpreter do everything
2019-07-08 15:52:39 miskatonic wasamasa is the inventor of evil mode
2019-07-08 15:52:44 wasamasa nope
2019-07-08 15:52:50 MoziM screw evil mode
2019-07-08 15:52:50 wasamasa stop giving people funny ideas
2019-07-08 15:52:52 MoziM hail hydra
2019-07-08 15:52:54 JordiGH metametapod: Okay, I guess you understand what you're doing.
2019-07-08 15:52:58 MoziM \0/
2019-07-08 15:53:08 JordiGH Stop that, you look like a goddamn cheerleader.
2019-07-08 15:53:16 MoziM T_T
2019-07-08 15:53:24 MoziM i mean have you used hydra?
2019-07-08 15:53:35 JordiGH Yeah, the GNU build service.
2019-07-08 15:53:56 pakcjo it's the same as in vim? :/ hmm I don't know how to use vim either, well just the basic, I was under the impression that they keymap/functionalities were different
2019-07-08 15:54:17 wasamasa it's an implementation of vim's editing commands
2019-07-08 15:54:20 JordiGH pakcjo: If you don't have a vim preconception, why not just use Emacs?
2019-07-08 15:54:25 wasamasa if you're not familiar with them, use something else
2019-07-08 15:54:37 MoziM JordiGH: o.o
2019-07-08 15:54:41 wasamasa like god-mode, lispy, whatever
2019-07-08 15:54:41 turbofail rudybot: extra confusion is fun
2019-07-08 15:54:42 rudybot turbofail: but I'm not sure the extra flexibility is worth the extra confusion.
2019-07-08 15:54:50 JordiGH Or... Emacs.
2019-07-08 15:54:53 JordiGH Just use Emacs.
2019-07-08 15:54:59 JordiGH Typing with two hands isn't so bad.
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2019-07-08 15:55:28 JordiGH But ,,capslock
2019-07-08 15:55:28 fsbot CapsLock is [0] at http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/CapsLock
2019-07-08 15:55:28 fsbot [1] see also http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey
2019-07-08 15:55:28 fsbot [2] to remap under windows, see http://code.google.com/p/keymapper/
2019-07-08 15:55:29 fsbot [3] http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/spending_saving/2012/07/02/how_to_stop_hitting_that_caps_lock_key.html
2019-07-08 15:55:29 miskatonic or with your tongue
2019-07-08 15:55:44 MoziM i prefer capslock being hyper :)
2019-07-08 15:55:52 wasamasa the [2] one is outdated
2019-07-08 15:55:52 turbofail every floor vibration is putting me on edge right now
2019-07-08 15:56:10 JordiGH Haha, Windows Vista and XP instructions.
2019-07-08 15:56:11 miskatonic best with a mechanical keyboard
2019-07-08 15:56:13 pakcjo I use qmk, capslock is control when pressed, esc when tap
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2019-07-08 15:56:28 wasamasa unfortunately I don't remember the command to replace a line in a factoid
2019-07-08 15:56:30 JordiGH pakcjo: Great, you're already 30% Emacs.
2019-07-08 15:56:45 JordiGH wasamasa: `no, capslock 2 is`
2019-07-08 15:57:03 wasamasa ,no, capslock 2 is to remap under windows, see https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys
2019-07-08 15:57:03 fsbot Try: away badcode LangPollResults lebowski-data naggum-lines possible quotemstr really shitkiwissay technical-argument-list thingp yoda-phrases
2019-07-08 15:57:09 wasamasa JordiGH: no, it's not
2019-07-08 15:57:18 pakcjo I know emacs more than vim, but was thinking about the possibility to unify it, vim is useful to edit configuration files on remote servers
2019-07-08 15:57:20 JordiGH ,capslock 2 is to remap under windows, see https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys
2019-07-08 15:57:21 fsbot toI heard CapsLock is [2] to remap under windows, see http://code.google.com/p/keymapper/
2019-07-08 15:57:21 fsbot [3] http://www.thestar.com/business/personal_finance/spending_saving/2012/07/02/how_to_stop_hitting_that_caps_lock_key.html
2019-07-08 15:57:21 fsbot .. + other notes
2019-07-08 15:57:31 isBEKaml shitkiwissay?
2019-07-08 15:57:32 fsbot I think shitkiwissay is And before you ask, no, we can't power it by putting goats in a hamster wheel.
2019-07-08 15:57:41 isBEKaml lol
2019-07-08 15:57:43 JordiGH ,forget capslock 2
2019-07-08 15:57:44 fsbot Forgot note 2 for term CapsLock: ["to remap under[...]m/p/keymapper/"]
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2019-07-08 15:57:55 JordiGH ,capslock is also to remap under windows, see https://github.com/randyrants/sharpkeys
2019-07-08 15:57:55 fsbot Added note [3] for term "CapsLock"
2019-07-08 15:58:00 wasamasa oh well
2019-07-08 15:58:11 wasamasa anyway, you all can guess how I found that one out
2019-07-08 15:58:14 JordiGH wasamasa: add-to-alist
2019-07-08 15:58:34 JordiGH I can't. You know Randy?
2019-07-08 15:58:47 wasamasa I'm using a windows laptop at work, lol
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2019-07-08 15:59:01 isBEKaml wasamasa: does it work at all?
2019-07-08 15:59:11 wasamasa surprisingly enough, yes
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2019-07-08 15:59:26 wasamasa I haven't dared putting emacs on it though
2019-07-08 15:59:56 cvandusen Time for a game of Truth or Dare.
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2019-07-08 16:01:25 isBEKaml wasamasa: come on, you're just IRC'ing here from that emacs on your windows laptop
2019-07-08 16:01:47 mns wasamasa: you may be able to live under the Linux subsystem for the most part.
2019-07-08 16:02:00 turbofail i ran emacs on a Big Company™ windows laptop back in the day
2019-07-08 16:02:02 wasamasa I'd do that if I were still developing software
2019-07-08 16:02:24 mns I've not had a chance to try it out myself though.
2019-07-08 16:02:37 turbofail this was like 11 years ago though, perhaps they've gotten more restrictive since then
2019-07-08 16:02:44 turbofail though it was pretty restrictive back then too
2019-07-08 16:02:46 Sketch i mostly lived in a linux vm when i had a job with a windows laptop
2019-07-08 16:02:55 wasamasa the current setup is notepad++ and cherrytree for taking notes
2019-07-08 16:02:55 Sketch outside of windows-specific tools i had to use
2019-07-08 16:02:58 isBEKaml mns: you forget there are *lots* of companies that still give out windows 7 laptops at work
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2019-07-08 16:03:14 isBEKaml Mine does. I haven't bothered booting it up for 8 months or so
2019-07-08 16:03:15 Sketch isBEKaml: hopefully not for much longer...
2019-07-08 16:03:41 Sketch Support for Windows 7 is ending. After January 14, 2020, Microsoft will no longer provide security updates or support for PCs running Windows 7.
2019-07-08 16:03:51 wasamasa the git for windows thing ships with part of coreutils and a terminal emulator
2019-07-08 16:04:07 turbofail not having to bullshit around with big corporate IT setups is definitely one of my favorite parts of not working at a big company
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2019-07-08 16:05:03 wasamasa a more integrated setup would be cool, but not worth the effort I'm afraid
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2019-07-08 16:10:37 shackra any elisp function for checking if a string is a URL
2019-07-08 16:10:40 shackra ?
2019-07-08 16:11:20 * Sketch runs for cover before the inevitable flamewar over what constitutes a URL
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2019-07-08 16:15:25 * edgar-rft thinks that a string is a string and not an URL
2019-07-08 16:15:33 twrk http://urlregex.com/ ; https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Regular-Expressions.html ... hope it helps?
2019-07-08 16:15:56 twrk https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt "Appendix B. Parsing a URI Reference with a Regular Expression"
2019-07-08 16:16:49 mns shackra: there is a whole set of url-* functions maybe something in there will help you ? C-h a url RET
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2019-07-08 16:19:53 shackra mns: there is an `url-p` but is undocumented and it seems that does something unexpected
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2019-07-08 16:20:25 shackra so I went for a simplier approach because my use case is nothing that complicated
2019-07-08 16:20:39 turbofail url-p is most likely used for determining if it's a parsed URL object
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2019-07-08 16:20:50 shackra uh
2019-07-08 16:20:56 shackra let's see
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2019-07-08 16:21:45 turbofail it's a function auto-created by cl-defstruct
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2019-07-08 16:21:54 turbofail so you're not going to find its actual definition in there
2019-07-08 16:22:52 shackra ah, but it actually does what I need
2019-07-08 16:23:00 turbofail no, i doubt it
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2019-07-08 16:23:28 shackra if I parse the string with `url-generic-parse-url` yes it does
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2019-07-08 16:23:49 turbofail yeah ok that would probably work
2019-07-08 16:24:03 turbofail just using (url-p "http://www.totally-valid-url.org/") wouldn't
2019-07-08 16:24:04 shackra :D
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2019-07-08 16:25:06 edgar-rft (url-p x) tests if x is a cl-structure of type 'url
2019-07-08 16:25:21 turbofail yeah even that only sort-of works
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2019-07-08 16:25:37 turbofail (url-p (url-generic-parse-url "not a url fuck you")) => t
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2019-07-08 16:26:03 shackra lol, damn
2019-07-08 16:26:06 edgar-rft great :-(
2019-07-08 16:26:08 shackra welp, back to square one
2019-07-08 16:26:26 shackra I just revert to a regexp check for any https?://
2019-07-08 16:26:40 turbofail part of the problem is that everything can sort of be a URL
2019-07-08 16:26:57 turbofail you probably want a more restrictive version of what a URL is
2019-07-08 16:27:04 ieure turbofail, Wait until you try validating emails.
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2019-07-08 16:36:26 cvandusen in soviet russia, emails validate you
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2019-07-08 16:45:35 clairedesu text rectangles changed my life
2019-07-08 16:45:46 clairedesu although visual-line-mode makes it kinda weird
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2019-07-08 16:46:11 clairedesu but the rectangles are so nice for formatting poorly formatted text
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2019-07-08 17:14:27 turbofail yeah rectangles are pretty sweet. i haven't had to use them in a while but when i do it's nice to have available
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2019-07-09 10:08:24 -- Topic for #emacs is "Path to good init.el: to err, and err, and err again (but less, and less, and less) | Emacs questions take priority over off-topic chatter, so ask! | No public logging! What happens in #emacs stays in #emacs | No racism, sexism, xenophobia, botwanking, or other asshattery, please"
2019-07-09 10:08:24 -- Topic set by JordiGH (jordi@octave/developer/JordiGH) on Fri, 21 Jun 2019 09:26:41
2019-07-09 10:08:24 -- Channel #emacs: 683 nicks (1 op, 0 voices, 682 normals)
2019-07-09 10:08:24 -- Channel created on Sun, 26 Nov 2006 00:42:33
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2019-07-09 10:25:22 tinloaf Is there a way to 'track' a point in elisp? I want to write a function that is given two points. It should first modify contents around the first point, then around the second point. However, the second point of course might be 'out of date' after the first modification, so I would need a way of getting the updated second point.
2019-07-09 10:26:06 tromey set a marker
2019-07-09 10:26:28 tinloaf Ah, markers track the content they point to, not the point?
2019-07-09 10:26:29 tromey (info "(elisp) Markers")
2019-07-09 10:26:48 tromey markers are a kind of fixed point, you can determine how they move with edits to some degree
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2019-07-09 10:27:31 tinloaf Ah, great. Somehow I believed they were just a fancy way to store points.
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2019-07-09 10:28:29 tinloaf (Though that might be because I confused them with the mark, which is not a marker, right?)
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2019-07-09 10:29:52 tromey mark is marker, but it's just one that happens to be exposed to the user through various commands
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2019-07-09 11:19:54 knobo1 I'm making company compleation for sass files, and I wonder if I can format the annotations with text-properties.
2019-07-09 11:20:35 knobo1 So that when one of the candidates is a color, I can show the annotation with that color.
2019-07-09 11:20:48 knobo1 Like rainbow-mode does.
2019-07-09 11:21:02 knobo1 Maybe I have to make a frontend?
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2019-07-09 11:58:17 rumbler31 greetings. I am trying to build emacs from source such that I can distribute it to colleagues. after I configure an out of tree build, users who attempt to use the binaries built there encounter errors
2019-07-09 11:59:14 rumbler31 there are warnings about paths specific to my machine, but there is an error about an install path that is being searched for files that isn't even populated on my own machine
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2019-07-09 12:03:36 tromey did you "make install"
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2019-07-09 12:05:01 Howitzer105mm rumbler31: What is the motive for building from source?
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2019-07-09 12:13:52 wasamasa rumbler31: what OS are you using?
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2019-07-09 12:25:39 pjb rumbler31: emacs is installed not only with its executable, but also with shared libraries (that must be compiled for each system), and "resource" files, such as emacs lisp sources and compiled files, and other data files.
2019-07-09 12:26:07 pjb rumbler31: so you need to make a tarball, and install it on the target system, but you need also to deal with the shared libraries dependencies.
2019-07-09 12:26:35 rumbler31 er...
2019-07-09 12:26:49 rumbler31 how to the maintainers then build emacs for distribution?
2019-07-09 12:27:17 pjb They build it for a specific system.
2019-07-09 12:27:23 pjb Distributions.
2019-07-09 12:27:45 pjb It's better to take the source, and compile and install from the sources.
2019-07-09 12:28:07 pjb I use something like: VERSION=26.1 ; wget ftp://ftp.gnu.org/gnu/emacs/emacs-${VERSION}.tar.gz ; tar zxf emacs-${VERSION}.tar.gz ; cd emacs-${VERSION} ; ./configure && make && make install
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2019-07-09 12:28:52 wasamasa it depends on the OS, lol
2019-07-09 12:29:28 rumbler31 and have everyone do that, instead of upload my own build? I am expecting that my coworkers have a homogenous development environment and while this is really just a curiosity I am interested in understanding it correctly
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2019-07-09 12:29:41 pjb There is a single macOS, and there is a single Windows. But there are hundreds of diferent linux distributions, with different libraries and library versions.
2019-07-09 12:29:58 wasamasa look, we can do this the hard way or the easy way
2019-07-09 12:30:41 pjb Furthermore, Apple and Microsoft take great care to ensure that there's compatibility between different versions of applications and systems (even if they restrict greatly the possiblilities here. You often get unexecutable applications, after system upgrades).
2019-07-09 12:30:42 rumbler31 in this case its ubuntu 16.04 lts all around
2019-07-09 12:30:51 wasamasa ok, so a debian derivative
2019-07-09 12:31:10 wasamasa you'd then create a .deb package based on the official one and adjust whatever you're doing differently
2019-07-09 12:31:20 rumbler31 I get that the variety of linux distributions are different and I have my expectations greatly curbed
2019-07-09 12:31:25 pjb (incf wasamasa)
2019-07-09 12:31:47 wasamasa then your colleagues would either install the .deb directly or use a package repository containing it
2019-07-09 12:32:17 wasamasa do this to gain some respect for maintainers packaging all the software you're using
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2019-07-09 12:32:34 average emacs is not that bad
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2019-07-09 12:32:57 average elisp might soon be a skill that employers will be looking for in candidates
2019-07-09 12:33:04 technomancy lol
2019-07-09 12:33:13 average technomancy: no joke, I'm serious
2019-07-09 12:33:22 wasamasa talking shit is not a skill employers are looking for in candidates
2019-07-09 12:33:47 average uhm
2019-07-09 12:34:04 average elisp could be used to automate an entire infrastructure
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2019-07-09 12:34:33 average just run emacs in batch mode or.. just have it run an .el file or whatever
2019-07-09 12:34:36 pjb Is a text editing library essential to automate an entire infrastructures?
2019-07-09 12:34:37 average it's like.. that simple
2019-07-09 12:34:49 pjb I would use Common Lisp for that. Or you could consider scheme.
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2019-07-09 12:34:59 average pjb: but why bother with those
2019-07-09 12:35:08 average when we have elisp..
2019-07-09 12:35:20 pjb Because CL implementations are more natural to write normal programs and scripts such as infrastructure automating.
2019-07-09 12:35:31 average pjb: yes but.. do we really want that..
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2019-07-09 12:35:52 average + writing important stuff in elisp gives us more leverage
2019-07-09 12:36:13 average and ownership
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2019-07-09 12:36:24 average and we know that in a corporate setting, everything is about leverage and ownership
2019-07-09 12:36:50 pjb average: for example, siscog uses CL to automatize transport infrastructure manpower management: https://www.siscog.pt/en/
2019-07-09 12:37:00 rwp Frankly that is the niche that Perl carved out years ago. And is now mostly occupied by Python. Not Elisp.
2019-07-09 12:37:11 wasamasa pjb: well, that's nice
2019-07-09 12:37:15 average rwp: exactly, and that's an oportunity
2019-07-09 12:37:22 average rwp: because not that many people know elisp
2019-07-09 12:37:41 average rwp: so it's obscure enough that it can be used to create ownership
2019-07-09 12:37:58 rwp And also a hindrance.
2019-07-09 12:38:23 average rwp: well, yes but.. the goal is more important than the means
2019-07-09 12:38:28 rwp Frankly that type of strategy is what is keeping COBOL programmers employed right now.
2019-07-09 12:38:31 average rwp: everything has a cost..
2019-07-09 12:38:35 pjb average: but I've done that, in elisp. And really, using CL would have been better, despite that in my case, there was a part where emails were composed, so emacs came handy.
2019-07-09 12:39:03 average rwp: yes, and it's working great
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2019-07-09 12:39:21 average rwp: even in 2019, COBOL programmers are in demand
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2019-07-09 12:39:37 pjb Niches are good.
2019-07-09 12:40:23 average and the majority of the mainstream hipsters will be like "wtf is elisp, forget it, I'll pass"
2019-07-09 12:40:33 average and that's actually a good thing
2019-07-09 12:40:40 e1f nachos are better than niches
2019-07-09 12:41:41 average pjb: niches are not only good, but they pay well too
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2019-07-09 12:41:57 parsnip mainstream hipsters
2019-07-09 12:42:11 fledermaus mainstr… yeah.
2019-07-09 12:42:14 average in fact, currently, there's an exaggeration and an abuse happening: people are trying to generate a ton of niches
2019-07-09 12:42:23 parsnip i consider myself an avant garde hipster
2019-07-09 12:42:43 average if you look at the tech landscape, there's tons of tools for every purpose, and that trend is continuing
2019-07-09 12:43:03 parsnip my apartment has many niches
2019-07-09 12:43:06 average supposedly, this wide variety will eventually make everything so fragmented, that every single niche will be worth quite a lot
2019-07-09 12:43:12 bremner I was mainstream before it was mainstream.
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2019-07-09 12:48:11 parsnip Liked, ❝10:33 <wasamasa> talking shit is not a skill employers are looking for in candidates❞
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2019-07-09 12:51:33 unknownmosquito PSH
2019-07-09 12:51:42 unknownmosquito if that's true, how did I get a job as Professional Shit Talker
2019-07-09 12:52:08 parsnip congratulations! 🎉
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2019-07-09 12:54:28 bremner I assume a shit talker follows a horse whisperer around
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2019-07-09 12:55:00 e1f speaking of farm animals, til a pizzle is a bull's penis which is used as a whip (not to be confused with a bullwhip)
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2019-07-09 12:56:52 hodapp you didn't know that?
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2019-07-09 13:00:52 ski rudybot: seen Fare
2019-07-09 13:00:52 rudybot ski: Fare was seen joining in #racket three weeks ago, and then Fare was seen quitting three weeks ago, saying "Quit: Leaving"
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2019-07-09 13:08:23 parsnip do people here use taskwarrior?
2019-07-09 13:08:29 parsnip especially for phone?
2019-07-09 13:08:39 parsnip considering porting it to flutter
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2019-07-09 13:14:14 parsnip man, i really need to automatically detect if an email is more long lines or filled lines
2019-07-09 13:14:37 parsnip even though i have bindings for toggles for visual-line-mode and auto-fill-mode.
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2019-07-09 13:32:26 dxtr Hi! Is anyone here good with org mode spreadsheeting? I'd like to vsum all values in the current row and put the result in column $1. Is there a short formula for that?
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2019-07-09 13:33:30 parsnip i find org table formulas a pain in the ass to "lookup"
2019-07-09 13:34:00 dxtr I guess I could do vsum(@<row>$2..@<row>$X) but that seems like a maintenance burden (I.e. if I add more columns I have to remember to modify the formula)
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2019-07-09 13:34:34 parsnip there are things like ">>" or "I..II", i forget the syntax
2019-07-09 13:35:04 bremner dxtr: you can leave out <row> fwiw
2019-07-09 13:35:04 dxtr Yeah I'm already doing @>$2..@>$13=vsum(@I..@II) to get the values in the columns
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2019-07-09 13:35:59 dxtr bremner: Oh that's right
2019-07-09 13:36:08 parsnip i wonder if something like @>$2..@> would work
2019-07-09 13:36:14 parsnip er, @>$2..
2019-07-09 13:36:30 parsnip surely there's a way to skip the first row
2019-07-09 13:36:38 parsnip oh, that's column
2019-07-09 13:36:51 parsnip w/e, im horrible at org table formulas
2019-07-09 13:36:51 dxtr Yes
2019-07-09 13:36:55 dxtr @> = last row
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2019-07-09 13:37:25 parsnip yes, almost everywhere first index means row. even in linear algebra
2019-07-09 13:38:01 dxtr Honestly in this particular instance manually specifying the column numbers won't hurt me unless we add more months to the year
2019-07-09 13:38:15 dxtr But I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask - I might learn something
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2019-07-09 13:39:30 theophilusx Using erc and returning to IRC after some years. How can I tell if my registered nick has been expired or not?
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2019-07-09 13:40:14 pjb parsnip: until there is a standard function to print out 2D or higher D arrays, rows and columns are purely conventionnal.
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2019-07-09 13:40:36 pjb parsnip: what you want to know is what index increments the addresses faster.
2019-07-09 13:41:33 parsnip ah right, and for arrays of arrays, i guess they print that way, and the rows are the outer iterator
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2019-07-09 13:42:42 pjb In case of CL, it's the last one. (let* ((a (make-array '(3 3) :initial-contents '((a b c) (d e f) (g h i)))) (v (make-array 9 :displaced-to a))) (print v) (setf (aref a 0 1) nil) (print v) (setf (aref a 0 2) nil) (print v)) #| prints:
2019-07-09 13:42:42 pjb #(a b c d e f g h i)
2019-07-09 13:42:42 pjb #(a nil c d e f g h i)
2019-07-09 13:42:42 pjb #(a nil nil d e f g h i) |#
2019-07-09 13:43:04 pjb In case of emacs lisp, there are no multidimensional arrays, so it's up to you.
2019-07-09 13:44:06 pjb Note that CL has a printer and reader for multidimensional arrays, so we know that it is what is called row-major (there's even a array-row-major-index function).
2019-07-09 13:44:30 pjb And the order is specified, so the mapping with displaced arrays is conforming.
2019-07-09 13:45:26 pjb But clearly, in maths, we usually index the columns first. So we can easily extract them as ("vertical") vectors.
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2019-07-09 13:46:33 pjb So in a way, CL stores the transpose of maths matrices :-)
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2019-07-09 13:48:12 kenrestivo pizzle sounds like something snoop dogg would say
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2019-07-09 13:52:53 theophilusx When using erc-autojoin-channels-alist, I get errors stating you need to be registered to join the channels. However, I can join the channels using /join. Could this be a timing issue i.e. my nick login not finished before erc attempts to autojoin?
2019-07-09 13:54:19 parsnip are hints like "yyyy-mm-dd" considered localized?
2019-07-09 13:54:43 parsnip i meant the characters, not the layout
2019-07-09 13:54:58 pjb theophilusx: indeed. It takes time to register.
2019-07-09 13:55:18 pjb parsnip: definitely not.
2019-07-09 13:55:28 pjb parsnip: in French, it would be AAAA-MM-JJ
2019-07-09 13:56:01 kenrestivo pretty sure the ISO standard date uses the english letters
2019-07-09 13:56:41 theophilusx pjb: OK, thanks.
2019-07-09 13:56:48 parsnip yeah, in my case i'm referring to iso.
2019-07-09 13:56:57 pjb kenrestivo: ISO standard are not presented to users. They don't need localisation. (But notice that most ISO standard are translated in several languages, including French, Chinese and Arabic).
2019-07-09 13:57:37 pjb parsnip: does the protocol involves sending "hints" and "localized" "hints" what's more?
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2019-07-09 13:58:04 parsnip my app has hints and locale, yes
2019-07-09 13:58:19 parsnip so far just spanish and portuguese
2019-07-09 13:58:49 parsnip oh nice, google translate actually handles that
2019-07-09 13:58:50 pjb parsnip: ISO standard are not presented to users. They don't need localisation. (But notice that most ISO standard are translated in several languages, including French, Chinese and Arabic).
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2019-07-09 13:58:57 parsnip es ==> aaaa-mm-dd
2019-07-09 13:59:07 parsnip rudybot: t8 en pt yyyy-mm-dd
2019-07-09 13:59:08 rudybot parsnip: aaaa-mm-dd
2019-07-09 13:59:17 parsnip 😁
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2019-07-09 13:59:44 pjb parsnip: the key word here is "USERS". When you talk about "hints" and "localization", you're talking about USERS!
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2019-07-09 13:59:55 parsnip yes?
2019-07-09 14:00:10 pjb Then ISO standards are irrelevant.
2019-07-09 14:00:25 parsnip huh? the user has to enter the date as ISO currently
2019-07-09 14:00:31 pjb Unless there is an ISO standard to define hints and format description in the various languages.
2019-07-09 14:00:40 pjb parsnip: it is irrelevant.
2019-07-09 14:00:49 parsnip something subtle is happening
2019-07-09 14:00:56 pjb If you give the user a hint of AA-M-D-M-D-AA he shall enter the date under this format!
2019-07-09 14:01:03 pjb It's up to your program to convert this format into ISO format.
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2019-07-09 14:01:51 parsnip i think i'm missing the point somehow
2019-07-09 14:02:05 parsnip did i say something wrong?
2019-07-09 14:02:12 pjb and telling the user to enter it as AAAA-MM-JJ doesn't exempt your program to check and validate this format, before forwarding to your ISO-expecting module.
2019-07-09 14:02:21 parsnip sure
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2019-07-09 14:04:05 pjb Now, as a programmer, I would prefer to enter the date using the ISO format, but most users won't like that. They will want their usual format. fr: JJ/MM/AAAA es: DD.MM.AAAA en: AAAA/DD/MM etc. So be prepared to deal with that… (I mean, ISO is irrelevant to user input, users are crazy).
2019-07-09 14:04:40 parsnip there's a calendar picker anyways, they should rarely want to type it
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2019-07-09 14:05:09 parsnip maybe if they're using the desktop version, or have a keyboard attached, they may want to edit the date manuall
2019-07-09 14:05:10 pjb Yes, for example, they prefer to use calendar pickers instead of typing dates…
2019-07-09 14:05:15 pjb See how crazy they are?
2019-07-09 14:05:18 parsnip today's date is autofilled
2019-07-09 14:05:33 parsnip crazy users
2019-07-09 14:05:38 parsnip i should ban them all
2019-07-09 14:05:45 parsnip no soup for you!
2019-07-09 14:05:57 parsnip excellent error message, imo
2019-07-09 14:06:10 parsnip haptic feedback
2019-07-09 14:06:17 parsnip spastic feedback
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2019-07-09 14:07:57 MoziM I don't suppose there's a quick and easy way of finding and invalid face reference is there?
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2019-07-09 14:16:10 cvandusen For counsel-M-x, when starting to type, is there a way to keep the sorting by most recent commands?
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2019-07-09 14:24:38 miskatonic CL isn't suited for numerical linear algebra, anyways (elisp isn't either)
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2019-07-09 14:30:30 MoziM care to explain why?
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2019-07-09 14:36:55 kenrestivo performance, IIUC
2019-07-09 14:37:13 kenrestivo craptic feedback
2019-07-09 14:39:30 kenrestivo yeah, if the problem you're trying to solve is how to enter dates in a localized way, i've seen a lot of people punt on that and put a calendar picker
2019-07-09 14:40:25 kenrestivo and then that poots out a epoch timestamp and you use whatever library you've got to hopefully save it in your db as utc
2019-07-09 14:40:44 kenrestivo because once you get into timezones your life is hell and may god have mercy on your soul
2019-07-09 14:41:01 gopar What's that package that lets you run 2 or more major modes at the same time?
2019-07-09 14:41:13 e1f ,mmm
2019-07-09 14:41:13 fsbot e1f: [->] MultipleModes are [0] a way to edit a buffer in Multiple Major Modes at once, e.g. js and css embedded in HTML <http://emacswiki.org/wiki/MultipleModes>; cf. new alternative <mumamo>
2019-07-09 14:41:13 fsbot [1] we strongly recommend simply using separate files
2019-07-09 14:41:13 fsbot [2] see web-mode http://web-mode.org/
2019-07-09 14:41:13 fsbot [3] see polymode
2019-07-09 14:41:31 * gopar bows down to elf
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2019-07-09 14:42:49 MoziM gopar: using more than 1 major mode sounds like a bombshell of side effects waiting to go off
2019-07-09 14:43:19 kenrestivo i used to use it when i had to deal with php
2019-07-09 14:43:20 gopar MoziM: yeah agree, just want to see how they're doing it in the source code
2019-07-09 14:43:33 kenrestivo which is like, php + js + html in one file
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2019-07-09 14:43:56 kenrestivo the solution was to stop using php :)
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2019-07-09 14:46:22 tromey it wasn't too hard to do this for mhtml-mode
2019-07-09 14:46:42 tromey the main problem is the "sub-modes" aren't always prepared for it
2019-07-09 14:46:48 tromey so the multi-mode needs some hackery
2019-07-09 14:46:59 tromey this could be fixed by someone willing to pursue it
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2019-07-09 14:49:07 MoziM instead of loading mhtml-mode first, load it after the other major-mode/s you're trying to use
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2019-07-09 14:51:43 tromey that's not the issue
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2019-07-09 14:55:58 MoziM you're going to have to give more details about these "sub-modes" then
2019-07-09 14:56:24 MoziM changing the load order is the quickest way of getting multiple major-modes to behave
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2019-07-09 14:57:05 parsnip there's some newer pretty good package i guess that switches modes depending on where point is
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2019-07-09 14:58:52 kenrestivo seems like scary magick to me
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2019-07-09 15:00:15 johnjay imagine if you had to open every emacs buffer multiple times to get it to work
2019-07-09 15:00:21 johnjay that's how it is with firefox right now
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2019-07-09 15:05:35 wasamasa parsnip: http://x32.be/approaching-js.png
2019-07-09 15:05:45 wasamasa parsnip: if it weren't for you, dart wouldn't be included
2019-07-09 15:06:03 parsnip lol
2019-07-09 15:06:11 parsnip 🙇‍♂️
2019-07-09 15:06:40 wasamasa I wonder whether anyone can name all the languages
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2019-07-09 15:07:23 MoziM johnjay: imagine having your most essential core functions as interned symbols....
2019-07-09 15:07:31 bremner The nine billion names of Yawehscript
2019-07-09 15:07:35 -- clesio is now known as clesio|gone
2019-07-09 15:07:37 wasamasa lol
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2019-07-09 15:07:43 MoziM seriously, how the actual h e double hocky sticks are you supposed to debug?
2019-07-09 15:07:58 parsnip lol
2019-07-09 15:08:34 e1f you could never naming them all because as soon as you finished, there would be a new one created
2019-07-09 15:08:38 wasamasa honestly, I'm concerned I managed to find nine reasonably popular languages compiling to JS with logos
2019-07-09 15:09:10 MoziM wasamasa: parsnip https://termbin.com/3fjo
2019-07-09 15:09:20 bremner let's make a logo that compiles to JS
2019-07-09 15:09:28 wasamasa cl abuse detected
2019-07-09 15:09:49 trui oh, thanks for reminding me that i need to work on my new language /s
2019-07-09 15:10:13 e1f only one?
2019-07-09 15:10:48 trui until i abandon it and start another of course
2019-07-09 15:10:53 e1f ah
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2019-07-09 15:11:38 trui it'll be like lua/js/python/... but better. clearly
2019-07-09 15:12:21 e1f pyjamas?
2019-07-09 15:12:38 parsnip :facepalm:
2019-07-09 15:12:40 trui oh, and i've decided to make my own minimalistic editor with vi keybindings
2019-07-09 15:13:46 Sketch for when vi is overkill?
2019-07-09 15:14:04 trui because if it doesnt have vi keybindings, then vim users wont use it. but if it does, then they still wont use it because vim is better
2019-07-09 15:14:54 e1f will it be called 'v' or 'i'?
2019-07-09 15:15:28 trui i, because it starts in insert mode. to help the newbies
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2019-07-09 15:15:46 e1f excellent
2019-07-09 15:16:06 trui (i hope everyone can tell the sarcasm)
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2019-07-09 15:16:46 * e1f wagers someone has started working on it as we speak
2019-07-09 15:17:05 trui though i do plan on making a basic editor for an intellectual exercise, but im not going to actually propose people use it
2019-07-09 15:17:35 e1f as long as it's called 'i'
2019-07-09 15:17:38 kenrestivo i think technomancy put an editor in a game engine
2019-07-09 15:17:42 kenrestivo wrote it in fennel or llua
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2019-07-09 15:19:09 trui it'll be called vipl. vi+lisp. you know, like viper :P
2019-07-09 15:19:20 e1f booooooo!
2019-07-09 15:19:24 davemq calc
2019-07-09 15:19:47 * davemq sighs
2019-07-09 15:20:15 e1f vili
2019-07-09 15:20:30 e1f livi livid
2019-07-09 15:21:07 trui i could make a Philip K Dick reference and call it Valis
2019-07-09 15:21:16 trui Vi and lisp
2019-07-09 15:21:56 e1f valis sounds like a erectile dysfunction pill
2019-07-09 15:22:03 trui lol
2019-07-09 15:22:18 erkin That would be Ubik
2019-07-09 15:22:27 kenrestivo ubik sounds like a startup
2019-07-09 15:22:32 kenrestivo that does bike rentals
2019-07-09 15:22:43 erkin oh lord
2019-07-09 15:23:22 kenrestivo valisp would be a cool name for a lisp tho
2019-07-09 15:24:10 gnomon valith?
2019-07-09 15:24:15 gnomon sorry, valithp
2019-07-09 15:24:44 trui sounds existiental
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2019-07-09 15:25:26 kenrestivo BRITNEY SLHSSSHPEERS!
2019-07-09 15:25:36 hodapp who?
2019-07-09 15:25:42 kenrestivo olde south park reference
2019-07-09 15:26:06 * dys must have missed that episode
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2019-07-09 15:28:55 kenrestivo shelly, stan's older sister. had braces and was obsessed with britney shpeears in the early 2000's
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2019-07-09 15:30:43 MoziM kenrestivo: what about MATTF DEAEMON?
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2019-07-09 15:32:13 gnomon I believe I have committed an error and I would like to offer my apologies
2019-07-09 15:32:26 kenrestivo him too
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2019-07-09 15:38:28 unknownmosquito if anybody in here does Scala and has successfully combined aspects of ENSIME with lsp-metals please tag me and let me know because I want to pick your brain
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2019-07-09 15:39:48 cvandusen ow
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2019-07-09 15:40:17 unknownmosquito is that ow directed towards me? :P
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2019-07-09 16:00:12 parsnip hmm, so my changes will make minimal ancroid version 19, so i guess i need to go from v0.1.5 to v0.2.0
2019-07-09 16:00:17 parsnip *android
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2019-07-09 16:06:59 johnjay ancroid sounds like a disease
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2019-07-09 16:09:43 e1f or a video game
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2019-07-09 16:11:00 Sketch rudybot: my ancroid is flaring up
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2019-07-09 16:11:08 rudybot Sketch: so my changes will make minimal ancroid version 19, so i guess i need to go from v0.1.5 to v0.2.0
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2019-07-09 16:11:48 causenetsofv i want #+name:foo to be referenced in #+name:bar's :properties:, but for whatever reason the key-value doesn't get recognized
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2019-07-09 16:12:36 causenetsofv maybe the syntax is wrong, but no idea how to verify
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2019-07-09 16:13:39 causenetsofv :var: baz=foo is what goes in the bar's list of properties
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2019-07-09 16:17:17 johnjay propertization. propertize. properlification
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2019-07-09 16:38:38 causenetsofv pronfusion
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2019-07-09 16:44:54 random-jellyfish how do I set up emacs in the same way as portacle?
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2019-07-09 16:46:59 didi Yeah, something is wrong with Buster's Emacs. My $HOME compiled Emacs can move emails, but not Buster's.
2019-07-09 16:47:32 <-- CosmicWitch (~darkprinc@unaffiliated/darkprincess) has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)
2019-07-09 16:48:21 didi Personally, I think notmuch developers are screwing with gnus on purpose.
2019-07-09 16:48:31 benaiah random-jellyfish: portacle's editor is just emacs; the configuration is here: https://github.com/portacle/emacsd
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2019-07-09 16:49:02 didi rudybot: seen rob
2019-07-09 16:49:02 rudybot didi: rob was seen joining in ##namespace one year ago, and then rob was seen changing their nick to Guest41397 in gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.126.177.128 one year ago
2019-07-09 16:49:13 benaiah random-jellyfish: idk how easy that will be to use standalone but it should at least get you pointed in the right direction
2019-07-09 16:50:09 didi I saw no bug on Buster about it, but still.
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2019-07-09 16:52:13 kenrestivo bug busters
2019-07-09 16:52:20 didi ,ringshot
2019-07-09 16:52:21 fsbot *badum TISH*
2019-07-09 16:52:32 didi Who you gonna call??
2019-07-09 16:52:33 fsbot Of course not!
2019-07-09 16:54:16 didi Now I can't take the music out of my brain. Thanks, kenrestivo.
2019-07-09 16:54:25 johnjay (make-ghost-buster)
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2019-07-09 16:59:38 didi You should suffer too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9We2XsVZfc
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2019-07-09 17:05:19 cvandusen let's monetize the eschaton
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2019-07-09 17:14:29 parsnip okay, going to try to detect long lines in a mu4e email
2019-07-09 17:15:46 didi parsnip: No no. Fix Buster's emacs first.
2019-07-09 17:15:51 parsnip lol
2019-07-09 17:16:10 parsnip rudybot: seen rms
2019-07-09 17:16:10 rudybot parsnip: rms was seen changing their nick to parsnip in unaffiliated/parsnip one year ago, and then rms was seen changing their nick to siraben in 184.22.227.228 forty-seven weeks ago
2019-07-09 17:16:51 pjb (defun has-long-lines-p () (interactive) (goto-char (point-min)) (re-search-forward "^.\\{73,\\}" nil t))
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2019-07-09 17:22:16 parsnip hmm, or i should just define a toggle that toggles _both_ of visual-line-mode and auto-fill-mode
2019-07-09 17:22:33 parsnip would take less time for now
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